I have insurance from my employer but the deductible is $5,000 so I pay cash and have found the situation to be exactly as you described. In fact, before covid shut down my favorite urgent care, they used to upfront tell you the cash vs insurance costs. Unfortunately in Sept 2021 I had a kitchen accident and went to an urgent care that used my insurance and it eventually cost me $2,000+ for a pain blocker and 3 stitches. I had my regular cash natural path remove the stitches and he charged me $35. Had I gone back to the urgent care as they requested I probably would have had to pay another $1,000. The only thing insurance offers is ‘free’ check ups at allopathic doctors I don’t use. I use a local compounding pharmacy and often they even beat the insurance prescription cost or it is very close, not making insurance worthwhile. I wouldn't have it if it wasn't provided. What I am doing is maxing out the HSA contributions so I have a large balance accrued to pay medical expenses. A much better way to go if you manage your health.
Going to doc-in-box or tele-med next month & beyond.
Have y'all used the discounter "GoodRx"? it is an app (i know, my phone is stripped of crap applications and Google things unneeded) but the price for drugs is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than self pay and often less than insurance co-pays (when i had insurance).
The company is directly affiliated with Albertsons/Safeway so the cost at their pharmacy is less than CVS/Wallyword/Walgreens. Still... The $350 migraine med is $4.80-$13.50 depending on where i go, so i grudgingly loaded the app & use it.
I love GoodRX! It is a better deal than health insurance for med prices. Grocery store pharmacies are the way to go…..always way cheaper than big box walgreens/CVS. They price gouge so so bad.
Growing up, my parents had "major medical" insurance. For "major" events such as serious injury. All the other stuff? Either my mother took care of us -- or we went to our doctor and paid him cash. Now, in the land of the free and home of the brave, we are not allowed to buy just "major medical" because it no longer exists.
Thanks to Barry Soetoro, the loser Mitt Romney, and our intrepid legislatures, including the one at the crime syndicate, we "must" have insurance that covers everything -- whether you need it or not, want it, etc. As a married woman without children, I paid the "family" rate because the insurance at the companies where I worked had either single or family. I went to a doctor in 1999, I think, then in 2003, and then in 2017 (back injury). And all that time, paying through the nose for insurance I neither needed nor wanted.
I agree 100%. My wife and I have paid into the system for years - we get nothing back. The "insurance" is worthless and pointless. Check out this article:
That's a great story re the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. I'd heard of them.
BTW, in the above comment, that 2003 doctor visit was at the urging of my husband. He thought at the time that I should at least have a primary care doctor. So I scheduled a first meeting, had nothing done (except blood work, which I asked for...), and made sure that was my last "visit." Which it was -- until I stupidly hurt myself in 2017. Only sought "medical care" to ensure that nothing was broken -- and I took my recovery from there.
P.S. Hubs now seeks himself to avoid all "medical" doctors and the "system."
My husband and I are doing the same thing, carrying the insurance through work because of the law, but consulting, by cash, a functional medicine Dr. and researching online other information. We only go when we need their expertise and connections.
This means I have spent some money on some things that haven't worked out but I do learn. Thankful that we make enough $ to be able to do this.
By God's mercy, I'm learning and modeling things that are helpful to our health. My husband is coming along, grudgingly.
a self-made millionaire. He NEVER agreed with insurance. Carried the MINIMUM required to own a business, carried Workers Comp. insurance for his employees etc. For personal healthcare insurance he retained a separate bank account. He would comment on how his peers were wasting money vacationing, cruising, saying they need save that money for their health. He paid cash for his heart surgery and meds, always negotiating with Dr.'s, pharmacies, hospitals and the like.
Sadly those days are gone...
soon, all will be electronic digitized monetary system negotiating prices for services a passing dream....
One will either get healt-care or be left at a curb...
These great conglomerate Holistic Health- Care 'Malls" will be shut down on pretense...
HUGE potential for quacks, sorcery, and witchdoctors for the young and uninitiated....
Make a personal healthcare library...mom ALWAYS had a medical book handy...
As a youth brothers and sisters and I were allowed to take it off the shelf if home sick...
Our generation has no idea how to negotiate or fight battles, most folks I befriend are working iin careers and for companies they don't enjoy because they need...'Insurance'...
Healthcare insurance for the medciatons they all firmly believe they NEED because a person in a white coat says they do. They trust without question, grow offended and angry at a practicioner that tells them they are obese, overweight, unhappy...SO...
Give them what they WANT...
A pill, a shot, another pill, another shot...
new name for the 'common cold'...
another name for the common cold...
a new injection to really prevent illnesss, well no, not that one...but an additional one, no wait...
Merck Manual was always handy in my mom's library growing up. Bought a used one (Physicians Desk Reference) from my doctor three years ago when he bought a newer edition. (2010 edition; it's still revelent with proper drug-class-family listings for treating which particular condition e.g. fungi-parasite-bacteria-viral, so i can use trade names to search generics. Then the YUGE five minute alloted APPT to discuss my illness w/doc is meaningful to me, to avoid racking up extra screening tests)
or, you can check booksellers for Home edition of Merck manual.
My newest self-ed is learning more naturopath solutions.
MY DOCTOR knows less about WuFlu, the jab, testing, published studies, and statisical world repercussions than I. He's too busy. *sigh*
I first experienced this deceit in early 90s with my wife's first surgery (scheduled).
Insurance company decided a month after the surgery they were not going to cover it after having beforehand saying they would.
While wandering the hospital halls, I discovered financial counseling, and, being a curious fellow, stepped in and got an education that previously was unknown to me.
The unequal weights and measures in hospital billing is insane due to "stop-losses" and medical coding requirements. I am by no means an "expert" but having paid medical bills certainly opened my eyes!
We went for probably twenty years with no insurance and I never had issues with doctors accepting cash. This was in California. No big deal and no cares about insurance. Amazing how inexpensive it was.
In 2013, we moved to Tennessee and the medical establishment there has had their brains removed by the insurance industry. Finding a doctor who did not physically cringe at the mention of cash was a culture shock.
Doctors want to doctor. I'm sure there are a few motivated by the money, but most just want to practice and be left alone. My current doctor (I now have employer based insurance) wants to retire, but I think the stress of today's "rules" by the insurance companies via the government will kill him first. I feel sorry for both of us as he'll be dead and I'll have to find another doctor I can trust. and there's no way I'm going into the government meat market of medicare.
We need to get back to the days of the doctor being a trusted member of the community and in order to do that, the first item of business is to remove third-party payers.
Will it be easy?
Will it be clean?
Neither is living in the mess we have now and I don't see it improving.
Hubby uses the VA, I'm uninsured. Hospital couseling tried to force me to buy insurance. ("There's no need to suffer dear, universal health care is your right!" said the admin w/ $ $ eyeballs.) That's the push. Outpatient kidney stone surgery had 11 separate bills (Facility wouldn't bundle because I am not an insurance company so they "couldn't release coding" data and consolidate the bill. Crazytown.
Whatever you do, and they will "encourage" you to do so, DO NOT use a credit card.
Simply walk away.
By law, they have to offer financial counseling. Take it at YOUR convenience.
Or, you can get it for free through most churches.
The financial counselor can write letters and document on your behalf, if necessary.
Rule #1: THERE IS NO RUSH TO PAY ON ANYONE ELSE'S TIMETABLE!!!
Remember, the mantra:
Stomach
Roof
Everyone else
The only one who cares about you is you. Trust me, I dealt with crazy town. They're obsessed with getting you to jump to their tunes. DON'T.
No jury in this world will ever convict you for keeping yourself fed and sheltered before paying hospital bills and they are required by Federal Law to help you.
I paid for many years, but thanks to the financial counselor, I learned starvation and homelessness are not necessary to pay off medical debt.
When one surgery causes twelve independent bills, even $5/mo to each one adds up!
I never ducked phone calls and wrote/reminded each one what I was paying each month per the Financial Counselor letter each of them had received. After three or four years of constantly paying $5/mo, which was all I could afford at that time, most wrote the debt off and others just made it disappear by offering to settle for pennies on the dollar.
Patience and perseverance are your watchwords. The Financial Counselor is your friend and advocate.
I have insurance from my employer but the deductible is $5,000 so I pay cash and have found the situation to be exactly as you described. In fact, before covid shut down my favorite urgent care, they used to upfront tell you the cash vs insurance costs. Unfortunately in Sept 2021 I had a kitchen accident and went to an urgent care that used my insurance and it eventually cost me $2,000+ for a pain blocker and 3 stitches. I had my regular cash natural path remove the stitches and he charged me $35. Had I gone back to the urgent care as they requested I probably would have had to pay another $1,000. The only thing insurance offers is ‘free’ check ups at allopathic doctors I don’t use. I use a local compounding pharmacy and often they even beat the insurance prescription cost or it is very close, not making insurance worthwhile. I wouldn't have it if it wasn't provided. What I am doing is maxing out the HSA contributions so I have a large balance accrued to pay medical expenses. A much better way to go if you manage your health.
smart cookie!!
Going to doc-in-box or tele-med next month & beyond.
Have y'all used the discounter "GoodRx"? it is an app (i know, my phone is stripped of crap applications and Google things unneeded) but the price for drugs is SIGNIFICANTLY lower than self pay and often less than insurance co-pays (when i had insurance).
The company is directly affiliated with Albertsons/Safeway so the cost at their pharmacy is less than CVS/Wallyword/Walgreens. Still... The $350 migraine med is $4.80-$13.50 depending on where i go, so i grudgingly loaded the app & use it.
I love GoodRX! It is a better deal than health insurance for med prices. Grocery store pharmacies are the way to go…..always way cheaper than big box walgreens/CVS. They price gouge so so bad.
Growing up, my parents had "major medical" insurance. For "major" events such as serious injury. All the other stuff? Either my mother took care of us -- or we went to our doctor and paid him cash. Now, in the land of the free and home of the brave, we are not allowed to buy just "major medical" because it no longer exists.
Thanks to Barry Soetoro, the loser Mitt Romney, and our intrepid legislatures, including the one at the crime syndicate, we "must" have insurance that covers everything -- whether you need it or not, want it, etc. As a married woman without children, I paid the "family" rate because the insurance at the companies where I worked had either single or family. I went to a doctor in 1999, I think, then in 2003, and then in 2017 (back injury). And all that time, paying through the nose for insurance I neither needed nor wanted.
A scam? That's being kind.
I agree 100%. My wife and I have paid into the system for years - we get nothing back. The "insurance" is worthless and pointless. Check out this article:
https://mises.org/mises-wire/how-fully-private-no-insurance-hospitals-help-common-man
There are solutions. The people in the fascist scam system try to bury the good guys.
Peace.
That's a great story re the Surgery Center of Oklahoma. I'd heard of them.
BTW, in the above comment, that 2003 doctor visit was at the urging of my husband. He thought at the time that I should at least have a primary care doctor. So I scheduled a first meeting, had nothing done (except blood work, which I asked for...), and made sure that was my last "visit." Which it was -- until I stupidly hurt myself in 2017. Only sought "medical care" to ensure that nothing was broken -- and I took my recovery from there.
P.S. Hubs now seeks himself to avoid all "medical" doctors and the "system."
I agree with your approach - avoid doctors and hospitals. I have never had a "primary" doctor. I try to stay very active and get outside. Peace.
Other positive news:
https://mises.org/mises-wire/javier-milei-ended-dc-sized-deficit-innine-weeks
Peace.
My husband and I are doing the same thing, carrying the insurance through work because of the law, but consulting, by cash, a functional medicine Dr. and researching online other information. We only go when we need their expertise and connections.
This means I have spent some money on some things that haven't worked out but I do learn. Thankful that we make enough $ to be able to do this.
By God's mercy, I'm learning and modeling things that are helpful to our health. My husband is coming along, grudgingly.
been there, done that...
Investigated exemptions:
Did you know that if you're a Native American tribal member you can exempt yourself?
Don't know other provisional exempts, but you can check on IRS tax Q&A.
Ex's father-in law...
a self-made millionaire. He NEVER agreed with insurance. Carried the MINIMUM required to own a business, carried Workers Comp. insurance for his employees etc. For personal healthcare insurance he retained a separate bank account. He would comment on how his peers were wasting money vacationing, cruising, saying they need save that money for their health. He paid cash for his heart surgery and meds, always negotiating with Dr.'s, pharmacies, hospitals and the like.
Sadly those days are gone...
soon, all will be electronic digitized monetary system negotiating prices for services a passing dream....
One will either get healt-care or be left at a curb...
These great conglomerate Holistic Health- Care 'Malls" will be shut down on pretense...
HUGE potential for quacks, sorcery, and witchdoctors for the young and uninitiated....
Make a personal healthcare library...mom ALWAYS had a medical book handy...
As a youth brothers and sisters and I were allowed to take it off the shelf if home sick...
Our generation has no idea how to negotiate or fight battles, most folks I befriend are working iin careers and for companies they don't enjoy because they need...'Insurance'...
Healthcare insurance for the medciatons they all firmly believe they NEED because a person in a white coat says they do. They trust without question, grow offended and angry at a practicioner that tells them they are obese, overweight, unhappy...SO...
Give them what they WANT...
A pill, a shot, another pill, another shot...
new name for the 'common cold'...
another name for the common cold...
a new injection to really prevent illnesss, well no, not that one...but an additional one, no wait...
P.T. Barnum: "A sucker is born every minute."
Has Mr. Barnums observation changed one iota?
Merck Manual was always handy in my mom's library growing up. Bought a used one (Physicians Desk Reference) from my doctor three years ago when he bought a newer edition. (2010 edition; it's still revelent with proper drug-class-family listings for treating which particular condition e.g. fungi-parasite-bacteria-viral, so i can use trade names to search generics. Then the YUGE five minute alloted APPT to discuss my illness w/doc is meaningful to me, to avoid racking up extra screening tests)
or, you can check booksellers for Home edition of Merck manual.
My newest self-ed is learning more naturopath solutions.
MY DOCTOR knows less about WuFlu, the jab, testing, published studies, and statisical world repercussions than I. He's too busy. *sigh*
100%! I recall reading a great article about this issue at mises.org:
https://mises.org/mises-wire/how-fully-private-no-insurance-hospitals-help-common-man
Amazing. Check out the price differences when it is done correctly and the fascists are held in check!
Thank you Jennifer. Peace.
Fascinating. I have a daughter looking at bariatric surgery with lousy but expensive insurance that will leave a big co pay. I will check it out.
"Health insurance" is an oxymoron. Insurance companies don't insure "health." Their only concern is profitability.
US "health care" is now owned and operated by the insurance industry, Rockefeller Foundation and Wall Street. The entire system is all about profit.
Only independent, holistic doctors and nurses provide real health care.
I first experienced this deceit in early 90s with my wife's first surgery (scheduled).
Insurance company decided a month after the surgery they were not going to cover it after having beforehand saying they would.
While wandering the hospital halls, I discovered financial counseling, and, being a curious fellow, stepped in and got an education that previously was unknown to me.
The unequal weights and measures in hospital billing is insane due to "stop-losses" and medical coding requirements. I am by no means an "expert" but having paid medical bills certainly opened my eyes!
We went for probably twenty years with no insurance and I never had issues with doctors accepting cash. This was in California. No big deal and no cares about insurance. Amazing how inexpensive it was.
In 2013, we moved to Tennessee and the medical establishment there has had their brains removed by the insurance industry. Finding a doctor who did not physically cringe at the mention of cash was a culture shock.
Doctors want to doctor. I'm sure there are a few motivated by the money, but most just want to practice and be left alone. My current doctor (I now have employer based insurance) wants to retire, but I think the stress of today's "rules" by the insurance companies via the government will kill him first. I feel sorry for both of us as he'll be dead and I'll have to find another doctor I can trust. and there's no way I'm going into the government meat market of medicare.
We need to get back to the days of the doctor being a trusted member of the community and in order to do that, the first item of business is to remove third-party payers.
Will it be easy?
Will it be clean?
Neither is living in the mess we have now and I don't see it improving.
Hubby uses the VA, I'm uninsured. Hospital couseling tried to force me to buy insurance. ("There's no need to suffer dear, universal health care is your right!" said the admin w/ $ $ eyeballs.) That's the push. Outpatient kidney stone surgery had 11 separate bills (Facility wouldn't bundle because I am not an insurance company so they "couldn't release coding" data and consolidate the bill. Crazytown.
Yes, it is crazy town.
Whatever you do, and they will "encourage" you to do so, DO NOT use a credit card.
Simply walk away.
By law, they have to offer financial counseling. Take it at YOUR convenience.
Or, you can get it for free through most churches.
The financial counselor can write letters and document on your behalf, if necessary.
Rule #1: THERE IS NO RUSH TO PAY ON ANYONE ELSE'S TIMETABLE!!!
Remember, the mantra:
Stomach
Roof
Everyone else
The only one who cares about you is you. Trust me, I dealt with crazy town. They're obsessed with getting you to jump to their tunes. DON'T.
No jury in this world will ever convict you for keeping yourself fed and sheltered before paying hospital bills and they are required by Federal Law to help you.
Sage advise!
Thanks for the reinforcement! i paid the bill over 12 months, never giving them my cc.
That's good medicine: reminding us all the survivor's mantra.
I paid for many years, but thanks to the financial counselor, I learned starvation and homelessness are not necessary to pay off medical debt.
When one surgery causes twelve independent bills, even $5/mo to each one adds up!
I never ducked phone calls and wrote/reminded each one what I was paying each month per the Financial Counselor letter each of them had received. After three or four years of constantly paying $5/mo, which was all I could afford at that time, most wrote the debt off and others just made it disappear by offering to settle for pennies on the dollar.
Patience and perseverance are your watchwords. The Financial Counselor is your friend and advocate.
Better off...
Mom's medical reference book got lost through time, thank you...will check it out!
luv ya Dr Fun!
❤️